This does not surprise me one bit. I collected signatures to get a measure on the ballot here in Cincinnati that would eliminate the property tax. By primarily petitioning in black neighborhoods, we got about 12,000 signatures in about a month. When this question was on the ballot last year (which failed by a 3% margin), most of our support came from the black neighborhoods.

I honestly think this is a voting block that the LP and every single local and state affiliate needs to go after. The African American communities are getting sick of the Democrats and their empty promises.

Excellent point, Josh. I agree...we need to be appealing more to African Americans, and I would extend this to other minorities as well. I still say it's a danger sign that after all these years our party is only about 20% women, for example.

The party could do a lot worse than return to the 1980 Ed Clark universal education tax credit proposal, updated for inflation and today's circumstances. Some type of homeschooling tax rebate ( if they dont use the system, they shouldnt have to pay the same property tax rate as those that do ) would also be a good addition. I'd like to see some more opinions on education reform besides these that can be proposed with a straight face.

A modified Brandon Senior exemption just for homeschoolers would be a great option, becuase going for the whole enchalada in one swoop is probably not possible. But giving home schoolers as a group a break would be just as popular as seniors. This is how you break it down - one group at a time. Before long, you have everyone covered under some liberatarian umbrella. But it takes years of nibbling to death the status quo to do.

THANK YOU, some one else is finally speaking up in regards to property taxes.

While often times public schools frankly suck, do we REALLY expect most children to get good educations from their parents' knowledge? Personally, I would not trust my parents in trying to teach me all that I need to know.

I think that an encouragement to move toward home school will simply be retrogressive, especially for minorities.

On average, minorities make less and have less formal education than whites. How on Earth are black children supposed to work toward equality when their teacher/parent is sub-par compared to professional teachers? To get a good education it takes a good teacher and a good school. If we encourage homeschooling, will not that simply further the divide between rich and poor even more?

Sure, we should fight for rights to do whatever we deem is necessary for children, but I think that it would be more practical, fair, and efficient to simply work toward better public schools instead of attempting to have everybody wing their own children's education.

Public schooling is an issue that I tend to disagree with the majority of this party's members about. I think that public schooling is an important part of our society. I am a product of public schooling and I think that if it's implemented properly, it can be a great benefit to society as a whole.

However, let me say this. The way the public school system is run now is horrible. The inefficiencies and waste that goes on in their bureaucratic jungle is asinine. The entire system from the bottom up needs to be reformed. We are dumping billions of dollars into the public school system and the education going to each child is getting worse.

With that said, I am of the opinion that instead of getting rid of public education, as many in this party advocate, we should fix it. Schools need to be run like a business. Teachers and administrators need to compete for their salaries like the rest of us do in the private sector.

Part of the problem with the public schools is it is a one size fits all. It is supposed to be for that non-existent average child. Many blacks or other minorities want more of their culture in the education. Other people want more of the basics, etc. A one-size fits all system does not please anyone except the people in power. That is why we need competition through home schooling, private schools, public schools competing with each other, etc. This will allow people to choose what best meets their needs instead of based on where you live and how much you make deciding which school you have to go to. It will also haev a side effect of being a lot cheaper.

Finally,

Someone posting something about African-Americans. Now what is the LP going to do about recruiting them because I can't do it alone!

Chris Bennett
Illinois
Black Libertarian since 91

I didn't realize that this was the case, but it's rather funny because earlier this week I was discussing with my brother taking my children out of school and teaching them here...the only disadvantage...it the coupla hours of free time. But I can teach them in a better more focused way...I'm still seriously considering.

Justin said:"On average, minorities make less and have less formal education than whites. How on Earth are black children supposed to work toward equality when their teacher/parent is sub-par compared to professional teachers?"

Justin,
I suspect most black families who homeschool are ones who have intelligent capable parents.

Some people think that all white homeschoolers are nazi/white supremicists or other wackjobs, also.
I dont think anyone can make generalizations like this about home schoolers. I have had many heated discussions with my girlfriend on this topic ( She's pro-public school and thinks homeschool parents are whackos. Though she is trained in Montessori,so go fgure.)

The same misconceptions exist about the LP, and frankly the Lp hasnt done much to help its cause.

I also wanted to add ( though I hope not to offend/insult any teachers) I don think that highly of the ability of public school teachers when compared with parents, on average. IIRC, most of the people I went to school with who wanted to be (and became) teachers were C students who went to the easiest Liberal Arts teacher's college they could get into and probably spent most of 4 years in a drunken stupor.. And though I dont want to generalize too much... And most of the people I know who grewup to be cops were racists, people with anger management issues,big time drug users or some combination.

CHAN SAID: "I didn't realize that this was the case, but it's rather funny because earlier this week I was discussing with my brother taking my children out of school and teaching them here...the only disadvantage...it the coupla hours of free time. But I can teach them in a better more focused way...I'm still seriously considering."

Chan, all I can say is "GO FOR IT".

One thing you have to realize with public schools is that you will be technically home-schooling them IN ADDITION TO sending them off to the daily government youth-detention camps, anyway.

Think about it: the average government school requires students to complete about 3 HOURS of homework every day.

Most people haven't figured it out yet, but this is essentially the school sending your kids back to you to "do the work".

Home-schoolers on average spend only about two or three hours a day on educational projects -- it's much more time-efficient; plus they will almost always be ahead of government-school counterparts even with the shorter time invested.

Your kids will have far more time to go outside and play (which will help them avoid the obesity a numbing day sitting in a government classroom does nothing to discourage).

Just make sure you do send them outside until they're worn out!! They'll sit still better for schooling time.

You may also want to check out a variation of homeschooling called "Unschooling" (see http://www.unschooling.com ), which is practiced mainly by libertarian-leaning parents.

Even "unschooled" children typically out-perform their government camp counterparts.

Justin, have you ever actually spoken to the children of "uneducated" black homeschoolers? Have you ever watched any of them compete in local spelling, geography, or math bees?

The fact is that the least qualified parent is often a far better educator of his or her own children than the "most qualified" public school educrat.

Early data already suggests that homeschoolers enjoy a significant performance lead over public school students in almost all subject areas.

As the homeschooling community continues to grow, there will no doubt be more studies on performance. But little doubt remains that the learning gap is going to get wider and wider as time goes on and as more parents evacuate their kids from the government school prisons.

Your comment about black parents as educators being "sub-par" to "educated" teachers is almost racist and definitely unnecessary.

I've met college-"educated" people who were dumb as rocks and couldn't hold a job, and high school dropouts who have transformed entire industries with their innovations.

This was amply demonstrated to me personally back in the eighties, when a government teacher with a Master's degree in education insisted to my class that the US government:

1. ... "reduced spending when the economy was humming along and increased spending when it needed to 'jump-start' the economy" (a table showing the previous twenty years' worth of increasing federal spending didn't convince her otherwise);

2. ... "didn't bomb civilians during WWII" (I guess never mind Nagasaki, Dresden, et al);

3. ... "had the lowest tax rates of any nation on earth".

All of these pronouncements were made within the space of two weeks, and there were countless other examples during the two-semester class. I was (and still am) an "uneducated" type who hated having to be at school, but my own offsite reading allowed me to know she was feeding everyone fibs. I often challenged her at the time she said things.

Her response was not to check her facts, but stick to her guns and escalate by sending me to the principal's office for "disrupting the class". She did this several times in the first month. Fortunately, the principal was fair and he listened to my side - and started monitoring the class via the intercom. After I took a few more trips to his office, he eventually called a conference with the three of us. He didn't say anything negative to her in front of me, but I was never sent to the office again.

In any case, college degrees are becoming increasingly worthless as a measure of "education". Some are still useful to learn various trades for higher pay; but even in those areas, many can be learned better in an apprenticeship setting. A "well-rounded education" as a by-product of any college attendance is increasingly a thing of the past; because colleges simply can't deliver.

Education schools are especially worthless. Their curricula often are designed according to socialist ideology (packaged as something else, of course). They are specifically designed to provide a steady stream of educracy-fodder - good little socialists who will whine without reservation about their "low" pay in front of a captive audience of many children of familes who earn far less than the entitled educrat nobility.

These new recruits will do their best to indoctrinate students with the dogma of "inclusion", "fairness", "self esteem", "empowerment", and "political correctness".

On the other hand, helping students think for themselves, make learned judgements about themselves and life, and helping them acquire the ability to learn further on their own is quite beyond educrat's ability, and always will be. It's not, however, beyond the ability of parents who care about their own kids to impart that sort of resourcefulness and independence.

Just for the Shrinking Violet set, let's put in some words they hate:

ABOLISH government schools and allow individuals to take full responsibility for their own children.

See: http://www.honestedu.org

As an attendee of one of America's best public high schools (ranked #12 by Newsweek), I have to say that it's still horribly run. Inefficiencies are rampant, teachers have little morale, and the kids are rotten.

Adam Silverstein wrote: "Schools need to be run like a business. Teachers and administrators need to compete for their salaries like the rest of us do in the private sector."

The problem of course is that it's a huge mistake to assume that government is capable of running anything like a business. I'm not just talking about education. I'm talking about any government program of any kind. Government is simply not capable of such a thing.

The reason it's not is that government does not and cannot run based on competition for profit. There is no marketplace within which government can be forced by the market to compete on an equal footing with another business.

So long as government can fund programs with taxes, it has a bottomless well of funding, something no private business can have.

So long as government has the ability to control the marketplace via legislation, it has an endless ability to use its power to monopolize, with all of the negative consequences that come from government sponsored monopolies.

Republicans have argued for years that we need to introduce profit motives and competition into government programs. But the reality is that whenever this has been tried, the results have been far worse than expected.

This is why libertarians so often argue for getting government out of education entirely. It's not just desirable; it's necessary. The problem is that government is so heavily entrenched in education that it's unreasonable to assume this will happen in the short run. Thus, our challenge is to find ways to move us in that direction.

Going after tenure, for instance, might be a good first step (as I suspect Adam is hinting), but it can't be viewed as a final, successful step. It won't succeed, and it can't succeed. At most, it might create a modest improvement.

The one thing that is missing from most discussions is that traditional education is fundamentally flawed. Not only is it dominated by government, it also fails to take into account what really motivates kids. Traditional education assumes that kids can and should be motivated by adults (teachers, administrators, parents, politicians, etc.) to learn, but this is a big mistake. Most people don't realize that this orientation leads inevitably toward some form of authoritarian control and progress toward political agendas through control of the classroom.

DWalter hinted at the strengths of unschooling, and I agree that it's far superior to traditional education. The only weakness of unschooling is that it doesn't involve a peer group. The "school" version of unschooling is called Sudbury (www.sudval.org). As a co-founder of a couple of Sudbury schools, I highly recommend this model. However, even Sudbury schools have the weakness that if the school's founders and staff members don't release their control over the kids from the day it opens, the kids won't learn to accept responsibility and run their own school (the way the model has historically shown kids are quite capable of doing) but instead will end up being dominated by the adults.

There is no substitute for a child who is so completely in control of their own education that they are able to do things that don't violate the rights of others and that aren't controlled and heavily influenced by adults. Such children end up becoming far more responsible, self-motivated, goal-oriented, worldly-wise, and have a much better idea of what they want to do with their lives once they leave school. They are approximately three times as likely as their traditional school peers to be entrepreneurial. Despite not having grades and transcripts, they are far superior at getting into college (if that's what they want) than their public school counterparts are. Traditional schools could learn a thing or two from the Sudbury/unschooling approach to education.

D Walter,

What's your ideas for abolishing these things?

I'm debating which one of several education reforms I want to put into the LLA concept I am working on and I want some input from you. How will the LP abolish public education as you say it should be?

I have one major concern about homeschooling, especially when it starts at an early age. Students that typically are homeschooled from an early age do not develop good social skills. They do not get this from their parents. They need peers to interact with on a regular basis. I think the first few grades K-5 should definitely be done in a public or private school.
And about the cultural thing, if parents find the time to integrate culture into homeschooling, why don't they have the time to do the same thing if their children are attending a private or public school? I am just wondering how public/ private schools become a problem. Do other minorities have similar concerns?

My biggest issue is that the Department of Education and all public education is completely unconstitutional, apart from being abysmal in performance and enrichment. The government's job is to be peacekeepers, not do-gooders. I strongly wish for every child in America gets the best education that they possibly can, I just don't belive that the government is capable of providing that.

I'm currently a college student, and recently graduated from a public high school. When I graduated, I was # 4 out of a class of 287. I took many AP/college prep courses, and, judging from my college experiences, none of it truly prepared me for the rigors of higher education or expectations of the real world.

The advantages of private/homeschooling education are so obvious they are laughable. First, when was the last time a school shootings or bullying were issues facing homeschooled children? Second, has anyone else noticed that so many of the Spelling/Math/Geography competition finalists are homeschooled? Now, some high schools get very good scores and their children go on to prestigious universities. Why? Because the parents are more involved in their child's education. This again goes to show that strong parental involvement in education (i.e. homeschooling) is vital to a child's education.

Now, some might call me an elitist snob for thinking that my children actually deserve a decent education that public schools cannot provide. Well, if this country's public education is so good, then how come we rank so low internationally in math and science? If you have been to a college campus recently, you probably realise how many students there are from India/China and other countries. We currently rank so low in math that we can't even count that high. It is embarrassing when students from other countries come to college campuses here, knowing all 50 states and capitols and more about American geography and history than students here know.

Another thing that is missing from school is the complete lack of practical education that I had to learn on my own (often the hard way): How to budget your money, how to change a tire, the details of filling out an apartment lease, etc.

Eliminating public education will also eliminate many other controversies surrounding education. Topics such as evolution and prayer in school will be up to the parents. If you want your kids to go to a school with a religious influence, why don't you send them to a private school or homeschool them?

Finally, the myth that minorities will suffer even more from demolition of pub. ed. is just that, a myth. Minorities are some of the most successful groups in America. The Jews as a whole are highly educated and well off. One in 20 MDs in this country are from Indian or other South Asian origin. Gays/lesbians have impressive spending power. Many of our great (not to mention well-paid) engineers and scientists are Orientals and Mid-Easterners.

It is time to bring education into the realm of homes and private schools, if we are to recover from this embarrassment.

The Jews as a whole are highly educated and well off.

Haaa Haaaa, I am educated, but I am not well off.

However I am mad they the Anti-hate speech laws is being put out. And I think quite a number of them are liberals/greens.

I put a ad out on Jdate.com to let them know about Libertarians and there are very few of them it seems that are Libertarians. I am very surprised considering they should know very well loss of freedom. And yet we have people like Ruth Ginsburg who voted for eminent domain as well. I am jewish and I apologize for some of my people. I do not fit in with my people very well either.

I consider the 20/80 ratio of women to men in the LP to be a major advantage (to me, personally ;)

But there is a huge untapped reservoir of women out there who are the first to admit that bulldozing somebody's home for a mall is not nice, that charity begins at home, and that some men can't be trusted with money. No matter how much they wish there was a daddy around, most will admit that use of force is not something they would advocate when it comes right down to it. They already prefer cooperation/tolerance over dominance, for the most part.

The problem is, politics is all about dominance and win-lose competition. So, there's a problem getting them involved.

We're awfully good at ignoring politics.

Badge Wearer said: "What's your ideas for abolishing these things?"

I repeat: see: http://www.honestedu.org/index.php

Not that you actually care.

Badge Wearer said: "I'm debating which one of several education reforms I want to put into the LLA concept I am working on and I want some input from you."

Yeah, right.

Badge Wearer said: "How will the LP abolish public education as you say it should be?"

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#educatio

Everyone thought the Soviet Union would never fall, until one day, it just did.

I'd rather see an orderly transfer of the public schools into the private sector, than the inevitable collapse of the entire system that's going to happen when it bloats to that magic breaking point where one small thing will bust and then the whole levee system fails and buries the whole enchilada.

The biggest reason to fix the problem before that happens is that when the entire house-of-cards does inevitably collapse, it will cost innocents dearly.

A parable might be the difference in how the Soviets got rid of communism (chaos + then a lurch back towards totalinarianism) vs. the way the Red Chinese are getting rid of it (mostly orderly and well-planned, etc).

I'm not going to sit here and re-write all of the reasons there are for eliminating government schools for you. Others have already written plenty, and none of it has swayed you yet.

I'm certainly not going to waste my time trying to persuade you, when for the same time investment elsewhere I can bring in several others who already agree with the Libertarian position but who didn't know of the Libertarian Party.

If you want to learn more about the reasons libertarians call for eliminating government schools in favor of private-sector alternatives, here's a good place to start:

http://www.honestedu.org/essays/fritz/ten_benefits.php

It seems that more and more blacks are getting hip to the failed experiments and empty promises of the liberal left. The trend towards homeschooling is one way to break the yoke of government. With fewer people relying on public schools, the bureaucrats will have no justification for pushing property taxes higher and higher, and this will cause a revolt among the over-burdened homeowners. However, we have a long way to go.
Another thing black parents can do is encourage their kids to start businesses of their own. Until black families start exposing their young to the principles of entrepreneurship, nothing will change. Most black parents still have a tendency to nag their kids to 'get a government job'; 'take the civil service test', etc.

You didnt answer my question.

and what do you mean, none of it has swayed me yet, as if I'm somehow in favor of government control of education?

I just happen to think the target of elimination of that control is a impossible target to hit right away. The order of which we reduce government is politically important and some things might be better targets later on.

You seem like quite the fan of the Chinese. Thats the second complement in 2 days you've given them. Do you get extra pork in your fried rice for that? :D

As a current victim of public education, I must behoove anyone listening to my plea to act as much as possible in school politics. My education is LAUGHABLE. It's a mini debutante party with socialites upping the gossip? Do we learn competition? Only when it comes to trying for first in line at the snack bar. The best that my school can employ is the over all indoctrination (through literature and history) of the minors that pass through their halls. I don't blame those recieving/giving home schooling. I encourage it.

Ok I am caucausion, DO WE HAVE ANY volunteers, I think we need a Black Female Libertarian President.
I think it is time.

I've been going to public school throughout my life and currently attend a city college. Quite frankly, the level of education isn't up to par. One thing that I don't like is that the standards are awfully low in terms of grading, testing, etc.

Forgive me for sounding crazy, but here's my view of what school standards should be:

(a) Divide the school year into three terms with each one being 14 weeks long. There would be 2-week vacations after the first and second terms, while a 6-week summer vacation would follow the third term.

(b) During each term, a student would take four classes. Each class would last one hour per day Monday-Friday.

(c) Anyone who gets less than a "C" in the course would have to repeat the course in the following term. Anyone who gets anything from a "C" to a "B-" would pass the course but would be strongly recommended to attend tutoring in the following term. Those who get a "B" or higher would be left alone.

Those are my ideas for now. Any more ideas are welcomed.

Sandra: I agree that women are trained by society to be less competitive than men. However, I also look at the level of participation in the Democrats and Republicans by women compared to the Libertarians, and I really have to wonder just how much of a factor this really is.

Go to any campaign headquarters for the two major parties, and you'll see a headquarters that is heavily staffed by women. Go to a Democratic Party political convention, and fully half the room (or more) is women.

But go to a Libertarian Party convention, and you'll find about 20% women. If you can find an LP campaign headquarters, you'll see about the same ratio.

Surely, these discrepancies can't be just about women being socially trained to be less competitive!

I do not agree that if a person who gets a C should take the course over. I think the person should get some extra tutoring, either during the course of the school year or in between schools.

Re Women: But if a woman IS competitive for power over others, which party would she join? Certainly not the LP. There is a vast pool of indifferent voters and non-voters out there who live our philosophy but don't get involved in politics.

The only explanation for our interesting demographic distribution is how well we answer the question, "What's in it for me?"

I joined because I like physicists, electrical engineers, programmers, math teachers, chess players and windmill-tilters and enjoy the debate. However, in order to grow, we need to attract more bookkeepers, manufacturers, retailers, mechanics, childcare providers, insurance salesmen, secretaries, cooks and CFO's.

My sister home-schools, by the way, and my mathematician brother is their math and chess tutor. My dad's an electrical engineer and inventor.

I'm single without children, so I have time for activism. I just wonder what we have to offer a woman with a family who isn't interested in politics, or doesn't have time for much more than voting.

That's our biggest question: What can we offer the people we want to join us?

The answer is obvious to us if we're "natural" libertarians (libertarian by personality). But most of the best activists are made by government stomping on them. We need to reach out to them in their battles with government and offer to join them.

It's basically the same technique the government uses: offers of relief from responsibility, mutual dependence, and increased power. Voluntary, of course.

Only a minority of people see around corners, so assuming the benefits of membership are obvious only gets you a minority of recruits.

To the nameless guy,

I didn't say that someone who gets a C hsould be held back. I said that someone who gets less than a C should repeat.

I hope I cleared it up.

I also would like to add that those who get less than a "C" would be required to attend tutoring along with repeating the course.

Actually, sometimes it is the teacher fault. There are teachers who teach poorly. I had teachers torment me because of my disability instead of working with me.

Sandra: Regarding women in the LP, I agree completely that it comes down to, "What's in it for me?" This is where I think the LP has really fallen down on the job....not just with women, but with all minorities.

There are a number of issues that women tend to find more interesting than men do. Very few of them get any attention from the LP. Most of these issues are "social" issues, which is why there are so many women in the Democrat ranks than in the Republican ranks.

I'd like to see our party devote more attention to issues from women's point of view such as: child abuse, violence against women, health care and insurance, abortion, and many others. I think the libertarian views on these issues could draw a lot of women away from the liberal ranks into the libertarian ranks, if we only addressed them more frequently and in greater depth than we currently do.

I had a conversation recently about libertarianism with a woman who works for my wife. She had heard about Libertarians, but her first question was, "Do they let women into their party?" The fact that she would even think of asking that question speaks very poorly of us, since we obviously haven't done a good enough job at putting out a women-friendly face to the world. If we had, she would have a completely different first impression. As it turned out, she scored 85% libertarian on the Quiz when I gave it to her to take.

I also think we should be speaking out to other minority groups on a regular basis. While they're a small minority, the six million or so Islamic Americans are a prime target for outreach in my opinion because they are so consistently finding themselves targeted by law enforcement because of "profiling" rather than anything they themselves might have done. Most libertarians don't realize just how hard the Patriot Act has hit this group, for instance. Many knee-jerk libertarians who can't see the difference between Islam and terrorism disagree, but I think this is a huge mistake. We should be gobbling them up into our movement wherever possible.

African-Americans are also a prime target market, in my opinion. A majority are becoming quite disenchanted by the failures of Affirmative Action, Hate Crime legislation, and other liberal "solutions" but they often don't realize that there is another alternative besides conservatism. Instead of turning to conservatism, we could be getting them to turn to libertarianism if we were reaching out to them.

Nameless - I know that some teachers teach poorly. I have had a few of those lousy teachers. They are the ones who played some role or a significant part in me failing a few courses.

I know this is off topic but its a must read. Chesk it out.

COPS CALL FOR END OF DRUG WAR

Friday, October 28, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.com

One of the most influential groups calling for the government to end the war on drugs is an organization of law officers that have first hand experience of its failures, according to The Albuquerque Tribune. The Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP), a lobby group against the war on drugs, is gaining attention because it has over 2,000 members that range from former police officers, and prosecutors to judges. The group includes many high-ranking officials such as a previous New York City police chief and Gary Johnson, a former Governor of New Mexico.

It is estimated that the government has spent over $500 billion on the war against drugs, but members of LEAP all have first-hand experience and maintain that current policies are having no effect. They argue that instead of sending drug users or sellers to jail, the government should focus its resources on treatment. Supply cannot be stopped in a free market, but demand can be reduced through appropriate intervention.

Despite massive budgets and resources thrown at the problem LEAP members point out that usage of methamphetamines is exploding throughout the country. Jack Cole, the executive director of LEAP says, “This is not a war on drugs. It's a war on people.” White House officials have accused LEAP of being misguided and irresponsible.

staff reports - Free-Market News Network

Selected commentary is posted daily with FMNN responses to the FEEDBACK section of www.FreeMarketNews.com.