The Bush administration looks like it's heading towards Nixonhood.

Cases of corruption, conspiracy and other mischiefs of that kind are paradoxically pretty positive to statists (unless of course they are directly indicted) because those scandals are opportunities to remind people that if government fails it is not because of its collective nature but because of the rotten nature of some individuals.

I agree with John Christopher about deflecting attention in the CIA Leak Scandal. This Administration is going to let Karl Rove and maybe "Scooter" Libby hang by themselves. It's a classic pattern by the Bushies of where they will leave their "own comrades" behind if they have to, inorder to protect their agenda, for example: former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil was a victim of this when he disagreed with Bush on the Iraq War. He had to go because his own views were at great odds with Bush. The same fate happened to former Ambassador Wilson and his wife when they got too close to the truth. So, it is not surprising to me that they will cast off serious charges, such as perjury and obstruction of justice, as "irrelevant" because they are to them.

Nixon let Agnew hang by himself too.

The interesting part is going to be watching to see if Cheney gets dragged into it at some future time. So far, the special prosecutor is saying that's not being considered. But with the latest information suggesting that Cheney did know that Wilson's wife was in the CIA BEFORE all the secret meetings took place is likely to at least splatter him with suspicion at some point in the proceedings. In fact, it's already happening to a small degree.

Once again folks, Mr. bush has done one hell of a job putting a noose around his yellow neck. This man is a sadistic war criminal. a serial killer and a dumb ass. He has no brain and he has to read from a script every time he opens his big mouth. Bush is a fool. Now if that isn't bad enough, his entire white house staff is following him down the road to destruction. This man is quite capable of self execution and all we have to do is sit back with a huge bag of popcorn and enjoy the show. The best thing that the republican party can do at this point is to nominate gerald ford as their next presidential nominee for three reasons. First of all this man only completed half a term after nixon resigned.He can still run for president. The second reason is that he knows how to end an unjust war, after all he ended vietnam. The third and final reason is that if he's elected he can always pardon bush's sorry ass after he is sentenced for butchering the citizens of a sovereign nation. (Iraq). Bush is gonna need friends in high places before he steps down from his throne into a prison cell.

How could the White House do this to a clandestine agent under their own governance? It sounds like treason to me, but that is for the courts to decide.

What does the law actually say about outing an undercover agent? Is this another Martha Stewart case where the "crime" is lying to a government agent who is investigating something that turns out not to be a crime at all? I guess the lesson for all of us is to immediately say "I have no comment" should a government agent approach us about anything. Being visible LP
members could subject one to a political trial just because an answer blurted out happened to be incorrect in some detail. ("Did you sign this petition on Sept. 5th?" "Yes, that was my birthday and I remember doing so." "You liar;
the petition form says you signed it Sept. 4th.
Even though the circulator is innocent of fraud
in submitting this petition, we have you, Mr. LP
State Treasurer, guilty of lying to a government investigator.")

I am not confortable with Ray's diatribe against Bush intellectual capabilities...
What I reproach to Bush is to believe that government should be involved in education, social security, international policies... I reproach him to be a welfare, corporatefare and warfare politician. I reproach him to pretend he can do something so that Americans have jobs and pay lower gas in exchange of votes. I reproach him to favor collectivist power over individual freedom and responsibility.
So now, I would say that my criticism of Bush is a better political pitch then the wild personal disparagement. There are so many better arguments against Bush. Never hate your enemy, just fight it...

I like Creech's argument. What the special counsel seems to be doing does not look like to me what justice is about. And the fact that I am an opponent to the the apparent targets of his investigation is certainly not enough to make me approve that style of investigation.

Creech, you make an excellent point about Martha Stewart's situation and how the same moronic "charge" could be brought against anyone.

However, I think what's happened in the Plame case is somewhat different; and keep in mind that if the Special P is taking people before a grand jury, their testimony is under oath (in contrast to the "lying to investigators" fakery).

I am not confortable with Ray's diatribe against Bush intellectual capabilities...
Posted by: John Christopher at October 28, 2005 09:24 AM

Thats ok if you are not comfortable with it but bush's intellectual capabilities has given him the lowest ratings of his presidency. Many in his administration is facing criminal charges for outing valerie plames name as an undercover CIA agent, which could have cost this woman her life as well as many other people around her. This leak may very well lead to a national discussion about the reasons that bush took us into a war based on lies and corruption at the highest levels of government, which is exactly what we need just in time for the 2006 elections. Oh yes, king george bush is an extremely arrogant, and foolish man who needs to be unmasked as the sadistic butcher that he is.
It's just as important that all of his followers in the republican senate and congress be exposed as his supporters. Only then will the people begin to start looking for an alternative to the world dominating hateful policies that the bush regime has pushed america into. Maybe the LP.
If bush and his administration is not entangled into a fight with the special prosecutor for the remainder of his presidency then he may very well use his remaining time as president to attack Iran or North Korea, and that may lead us into WW3.
This president spent his first term in office building political capital by lying and killing, so it's only fair that he use the second term trying to defend his administrations possition for outing this womans name as well as being a war criminal. Keep his hands tied so his capabilities to kill innocent people is somewhat reduced..........Besides, the more bush is forced to defend his possition, the more likely someone like mr libby will make a mistake and hang this president...............Well, I had better go make some more popcorn, the shows gonna be good.

Ray, I am going to watch. lol make mine with butter. Oh and give me a blanket, it's cold.

http://tinyurl.com/bl9pc

I don't necessarily condone the leaking of state
secrets, whether by Scooter Libbey or Daniel
Ellsburg (as in "Pentagon Papers"). But catching
administration officials in illegalities isn't
as important as was preventing Saddam from
getting nuclear weapons.

Not only was Scooter Libby not charged with
the underlying crime of leaking secrets, but
the issue underlying that crime--whether or
not Saddam was trying to build nukes--is more
important.

French intelligence forged some documents to
make Bush look dumn (not too difficult). But
in reality, whether or not Saddam was trying
to get more uranium from Africa is almost
irrelevant. He already had 500 tons of Yellowcake
amd 1.8 tons of enriched uranium--enough to make
dozens of nukes.

If we hadn't invaded, the sanctions and
inspections would have stopped--leaving Saddam
free to pursue his long-held goal of getting
nuclear weapons.

The LP should be focused on protecting Americans
from attack, not siding with the left in it's
quibbles with Bush.

Please, join our discussions at:
fightforliberty@yahoogroups.com

Thank you Kevin Bjorson, I am glad to keep seeing people with your kind of thinking that is part of the lp party. Others have said the same thing even though the wording has been slightly different.

Nutz. Saddam couldnt even feed his own population. He was nowhere close to getting any sort of nuke, and all so called evidence of WMD's have been proven 100% false.

IF you want to make the world safer and prevent terrorists from getting nukes, pull the US out from all the places they are sticking their nose into and work with the russians to make sure none of their former nuke weapons industry is getting hungry enough to sell a suitcase nuke on the black market.

You dont export freedom with the barrels of guns. YOu do it by showing the world what freedom does for your country and it's way of life.

The CIA Leak case appears finally complete with no charges for outing an undercover operative.

In the course of the investigation one Scooter, Libby was indicted for giving testimony different than what was in his own notes.

Timothy, some other country do not care what our way of life is. And the muslim country did have the means for the wmd.

Timothy,

"Prompted by 9/11 attacks our government made a dramatic shift a 60 year old foreign policy and began to aggressively promote freedom to replace dictatorial governments. Instead of just dealing with what ever government existed no matter how oppressive, we now promote regime change specifically in the middle east and are using various means to that end."

"Guess you missed out on the history of armed resistence. When the shot was fired that was heard around the world set off the american revolution."

11/1/2005 NY Times: "WASHINGTON, Nov. 1 - In an extraordinary sign of the depth of political acrimony here, Democratic leaders employed a rarely invoked rule today to place the entire Senate in closed session for more than two hours, saying that the Republican majority had reneged on a promise to thoroughly investigate flawed intelligence used to justify the Iraq war."

Republican leader Bill Frist's reply? "The resort to this, this, this stunt - this political stunt - this scare tactic, is really deeply disappointing....[never before] have ever I been slapped in the face with such an affront to the leadership of this grand institution."

So there you have it, folks. Questioning the US entry into the War with Iraq and demanding an investigation of it is an affront to the Republican leadership of the Senate.

Libertarian TV,

Senates' closed session - For a very good wordsmith your last statement is just plain wrong. Skillfull but still wrong. Frisk's complaint was not about questions, the surprise of Reeds request to close the Senate was.

When Senator minority leader Reed, asked for a closed session, this was an affront to Senate leadership because there was no prior notice. Something few outside of the Senate would care much about but provides fodder for left leaning pundits seeking scraps to complain about and did make news.

Over the past years journalists reported over and over and over again that every intelligence agency in the western world got it wrong about Iraq's WMD programs. Since then, with over 200 intelligence officers interviewed, not one was willing to state to the committee they were coerced or encouraged to change their assessment in any way. Time to move on.

Senator Pat Robinson, chairman of the Senate Committee investigating the Democrats charges, stated the Phase II report Senator Reed was demanding was already scheduled for release Wednesday and Senator Reed knew it.

It seems that Democrats controlled Congress so long its leaders do not know how to fulfill the minority role. My wish is they get past history, accept responsibility for their part in what ever they think went wrong, present some better solutions to today's challenges and vigorously promote them to the american people.

And that's my opinion!

Stockman: I understand your point, and to ask for a closed session is in my opinion afront to free speech and open government. However, it has to be said that in my opinion the question of why we went to war has not been asked anywhere near enough by any party in Government. Both Repubs. and Dems. are equally to blame here. However, we now have over 2000 US lives lost, and God knows how many Iraqi lives lost, in a war that was done for the wrong reasons (and goes against practically all LP policy). We owe it to those people to find out the reasons why.

How about those who want a war with Iraq or any other country just pay for it themselves, and quit using stolen tax money. They can then go fight themselves or hire mercenaries. Leave the US regime and tax extortion out of it.

Stockman: you are saying that closed session of the Senate requires advance notice. I believe that such notice is required to come from the Republican leadership, not from the minority Democrats. How then is Senate Minority Leader Reid supposed to ask for it? By calling for it in the Senate...which is exactly what he did!

Please bear in mind Sen. Reid did not declare the Senate to be in closed session. He only called for it. That's the distinction which eludes you.

You also wrote: "Since then, with over 200 intelligence officers interviewed, not one was willing to state to the committee they were coerced or encouraged to change their assessment in any way. Time to move on."

Whether or not they were coerced is only a side issue. The main issue is whether or not the Bush administration fabricated their evidence that WMDs existed in Iraq, since it was the basis for Bush's call to invade in the first place.

The fact is that the Republicans have been helping the Bush administration to whitewash his public deception over WMDs from his now famous 2003 State of the Union address, while Iraq War supporters are trying to downplay it. The majority of the nation is now beginning to realize the truth of the matter, and that's why this same majority of the country now believes the war was unjustified. I only wish they had achieved this revelation before the Elections of 2004.

To: Libertarian TV

Maybe you are just not familiar Senate's rules. Prior notice, is a recognized understanding between the Senate minority and majority leaders to allow leader to thoughtfully prepare for the comming event without being blindsided and forced to add lib. Since this courtesy was not observed a social contract was violated, trust eroded and future corporation now even more difficult between Senate leadership.

While it may not be one of your complaints, one charge from the far left is the administration influenced, cherry picked or otherwise did something with WMD intelligence to justify their decision to go to war. This is one part of what Senator Robertson's committee is investagateing and the committee, Senator Reed asked for a closed door session to address. They met and appointed one more bipartisan committee to oversee what the first bipartisan commitee was doing.

As you seem to know, administrations have no independent means of gathering intelligence so is dependent upon the several agencies to gather, analyze and present findings. The, sixteen words in the State of the Union address from British intelligence, that so upset you, supported the rational that, "time was of the essence". The administration said they didn't want to wait for a mushroom cloud to rise over an American city before takeing action.

(1) Everyone else seems to know the objective of invasion was to remove the Saddam regime. The Congress publicly supported regime change policy in statements prior to the invasion and both followed the U.N. resolution threatening serious consequences following Iraqi's failure to stop blocking inspections and shooting at allied aircraft.

(2) The reason to invade soon, was based on the belief Iraq had WMD and the knowledge Iraq had a used them before. The weather was a consideraton (chemical gear are just too hot for Iraq summer) and the time remaining for the adminstration term was likely another. There is never just one reason for a complex action.

(3) The number of troops was proposed in a plan submitted to the joint chiefs of staff, endorsed by it and the Secretary of Defense, approved by the Commander in Chief and successfully executed by the military in just 100 days.

(4) With the regime out, major combat operations over, standing up a replacement government began.

The Republicans in Congress defend the president because he is the leader of the Republican party. That is what they are supposed to do.

Status: Iraq now has a interim government, a permanent constitution approved by an overwhelming majority of voters from a 63% turnout. Elections for a permenant government created by the new constitution are scheduled for next month and last week two more Sunni groups announced they will field candidates. The new Iraqi government has enough confidence to re-send Ambassador Bremmers' order to disband Saddams' military, and accepting applications from experienced officers and NCO's of the old military.

Prediction:
(1) With experienced Iraqi commanders joining the new army now it won't take ten years to train a new corps of non-commissioned and commissioned officers. This will allow our soldiers to hand off their jobs and re-position.

(2) The Iraqi army will unable to seal their borders, and as long as Syria and Iran remain unhelpful, the Jihadist's will continue to infiltrate and fire IED's until they identify a better possibility for success, maybe in Saudi Arabia.

original with links at http://anti-state.com/blog/?
p=19&PHPSESSID=184cde25d7b9095c025be496a684962a

posted by Jeremy Sapienza @ 11:55 am
November 4, 2005

From the Liberty Belles blog, Kris, in response to someone from ASC,
said:

"The Baathist regime averaged 60,000 Iraqi murders a year. During the
past 3 years, 60,000 Iraqi civillians have died. Even if the majority
of those civillians were killed by American troops (and Joe, I dare
you to claim they are, really, I do), by my grim math that's 40,000
civillians/year x 3 years = 120,000 civillians we've directly saved
due to our invasion of Iraq."

Dearest Kris--

(Stats -- scroll down to Iraq)

Human Rights Watch estimates that 290K Iraqis were killed by Saddam's
regime -- EVER. That's 24 years from 1979 to 2003. That's 12,083 a
year. The US Govt says 300K. That's 12,500 a year. Keep in mind that
this includes 1991, right after the US told the Shi'нґҐs and the
Kurds "Go ahead and rebel, we'll back you up." They rebelled, they
didn't get backed up, and they were crushed. 60K Shi'ites were
killed. That'll teach them to trust the US. We also have no idea how
many Ba'athist aparatchiks this includes -- dictators routinely purge
their ranks.

There is also some questioning of the 290K number -- the Red Cross
wouldn't even back it up. From John Laughland: "Their report speaks
of an estimated 290,000 missing, 'many of whom are believed to have
been killed.' In other words, their deaths have not been
established..."

Even current Iraqi politicians, who have an incentive to lie and
exaggerate, say that Saddam killed a million people. That's still
41,666 per year.

HRW even says "by the time of the March 2003 invasion, Saddam
Hussein's killing had ebbed." By the time of the invasion, Saddam
likely wasn't killing much of anyone but major rivals and outspoken
opponents, like Muqtada al-Sadr's father. Certainly nothing like
crushing rebellions. So in reality, the US has greatly accelerated
the killing.

Pretty much all you had to do in Saddam's Iraq was shut the hell up
and mind your own business. Before sanctions, the economy was one of
the best in the Arab world, women's rights were lightyears ahead.
That was before the US and UK bombed and sanctioned Iraq for 12
years, decimating the economy and causing at least a million to die
due to malnutrition and limited access to basic drugs for easily-
curable diseases. The US killed a million Iraqis before they ever
stepped foot on that patch of dirt.

Add all this to the fact that the war is crushing the Iraqi economy,
the fact that the insurgents are attacking precisely because the US
is there, and you have a veritable holocaust -- triggered by the
United States of America. Furthermore, the insurgency is widely
backed by the general population (or else it couldn't exist).
Journalists report civilians helping out, too. For example, a man who
has lost a son to a trigger-happy hick will, after a long day of
tending his date palms, plant a roadside bomb for US troops, and then
head home to the rest of his devastated family.

And that's just how the war is fucking up IRAQ.

-----------

The reason this is so important is because there are all kinds of
people spouting off many different numbers, plenty of which, like
Kris', seem to have come right out of their asses in an attempt to
further demonize Saddam and make the US look like angels simply
because they have killed less people. There are other factors to take
into account, like the fact that the people who were killed by Saddam
knew how to avoid it. They knew it was coming at some point (and just
to preempt some of the simpleminded out there who think I'm praising
Saddam -- no, this did not make it okay). Saddam was the hurricane to
the US earthquake.

The people killed by US troops and the insurgents attacking because
of the former's presence have absolutely no idea how or when or where
they will be killed. The news is filled with stories about Baghdadis
who never leave their house, and go out once a month on a militarily-
planned run for food. I mean, this is great for concrete barrier and
razor wire manufacturers, but I think most people familiar with the
most basic econ know this puts the Iraqi economy squarely in the
gutter -- along with Iraqi life. Life under Saddam's regime was
immeasurably more enjoyable and normal than the complete disaster
Iraqis are forced to suffer post-Saddam. Couples went on dates, women
could wear what they wanted, bookstores had poetry readings at 2am,
fine restaurants served gourmet cuisine, kids ran around the streets
eating ice cream in the hot summers, and went home to their fully-
electrified, air-conditioned home. It wasn't London or Paris or New
York by any stretch of the imagination, but it was infinitely more so
than staunch US ally Riyadh. And that was WITH 12 years of sanctions
that crushed Iraq's poorest underfoot but which left Saddam unscathed.

What is being created right now in Iraq is a government that will be
some amount more socialist than Sweden or France but in the personal
freedom sphere will be some amount better than Iran. And that's just
in the short period of time before Iraq splits into 1000 clandoms,
which, face it, is gonna happen. And then it's a short time before
Iraq is the next Somalia -- but a richer, more important version. It
will be the first big stick of dynamite the State will have planted
in its own fat ass. There will be many more. It didn't have to be
this violent. But nobody who isn't a moron ever said the State was
intelligent.

Timothy west wrote:
Nutz. Saddam couldnt even feed his own population. He was nowhere close to getting any sort of nuke, and all so called evidence of WMD's have been proven 100% false.

IF you want to make the world safer and prevent terrorists from getting nukes, pull the US out from all the places they are sticking their nose into and work with the russians to make sure none of their former nuke weapons industry is getting hungry enough to sell a suitcase nuke on the black market.

You dont export freedom with the barrels of guns. YOu do it by showing the world what freedom does for your country and it's way of life.
Posted by: Timothy West at October 31, 2005 07:02 AM

TIMOTHY IS EXACTLY RIGHT.....

Now this is a guy who has his facts straight. You don't export freedoms with the barrell of a gun.
Right on timothy. Now heres a guy who understands peace.
This government of ours made saddamn the butcher that he was when they supported his terrorist regime. Some people would like us all to believe that bush was only invading his country to bring about democracy? OUR GOVERNMENT CREATED SADDAMN HUSSEIN. They supported his terrorism.
Our government supported this butcher and helped him mass murder his own people by supplying him with weapons of mass destruction.
The U,S government supports terrorism. In no way is this government in the business of promoting peace and anyone who is naive enough to believe this BS really needs to take a minute and pull their heads out of their back side.

Timothy has done a better job of promoting peace in this blog than the U,S government has done in any of the last several illegal wars they have involved themselves in since vietnam

For freedom, I hope yer watching. Read this article on the demise of bush, it will surely make you laugh even harder.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7617.shtml

here is part of what it says:

GOP Leaders to Bush: 'Your Presidency is Effectively Over'
By DOUG THOMPSON
Nov 4, 2005, 08:13
Email this article
Printer friendly page

A growing number of Republican leaders, party strategists and political professional now privately tell President George W. Bush that his presidency "is effectively over" unless he fires embattled White House advisor Karl Rove, apologizes to the American people for misleading the country into war and revamps his administration from top to bottom.

"The only show of unity we have now in the Republican Party is the belief that the President has failed the party, the American people and the presidency," says a longtime, and angry, GOP strategist.

With the public face of support for Bush eroding daily from even diehard Republicans, the President faces mounting anger from within his party over the path that may well lead to loss of control of Congress in the 2006 midterm elections and the White House in 2008.

"This presidency is in trouble," says a senior White House aide. "Even worse, I don't know if there is a way out of the trouble."

Congressional leaders journeyed to the White House before Bush left on his South American tour this week to tell the President that his legislative agenda on the Hill is dead, his latest Supreme Court nominee faces a tough confirmation fight in the Senate and he is facing open revolt within party ranks.

"The Speaker is having an increasingly difficult time holding his troops in line," says a source within the office of House Speaker Dennis J. Hastert. "Anger at the President grows exponentially with each passing day."

At a recent White House strategy session, internal party pollsters told the President that his approval rating with Americans continues to slide and may be irreversible, citing his failed Iraq war, the failed Supreme Court nomination of Harriet Miers and his failure to deal decisively on a number of fronts, including Hurricane Katrina, the economy and the Valerie Plame scandal.

In meetings, leaders and strategists have suggested a number of things that Bush must do to try and save his presidency and GOP prospects in upcoming elections, including:

* Apologize to the American people, Congress and our allies for misleading them on the reasons for invading Iraq;
* Revamp the White House staff from top to bottom;
* Fire Rove.

"We keep coming back to Rove," says a GOP pollster. "He has escaped indictment, so far, but the feeling within the party is that another shoe is ready to drop and the longer he waits to jettison Rove the greater the damage. As long as Karl Rove remains at the President's side, the Bush presidency is effectively over and he is just riding out the days until the nation elects a Democrat to replace him. Even with Rove gone the damage may be irreparable."

Bush, however, has dug his heels in on Rove. When a GOP strategist suggested last weekend that the President fire Rove, Bush exploded.

"You go to hell," he screamed at the strategist. "You can leave and you can

Get some popcorn folks, the GOP is in deep doody and the show just gets better every day. Man this stuff is better than any soap opera ever could be.
Bush is hanging himself with his own rope.

Popcorn anyone?

Watch for the other shoe to drop soon. Or maybe osama will pop up?

Efforts to generate scandal to discredit the administration, if successful, could render it unable to carry out its agenda. If that failure produces a Democrat majority in 2006 Congress and maybe even the Presidency 2008 this would complete a dramatic shift in power. A self evident stratagy and political Democraic party objective.

Statements of Senators Schumer, Kennedy, Boxer, Feinstein, Rockefeller, Reed and Leathy etc., are so foreign to libertarian ideology, I want nothing to do with their vision for America. With a democratic majority in government their ideas may prevail on, national healthcare (expand medicare to all), other increases to social programs, more limits on armed self defense (restrict individual access to ammunition), class warfare (increase taxes wealhty), promote energy consevation while opposing energy production, execute a completely unknown policy of how to confront radical Islam and more.

It seems that those spending their capital bashing Bush, have given little thought to the results if that strategy succeeds. What I am not understanding is the glee I read in this blog when Democrats charges gain traction, when their vision for america is so far from Libertarian's ideology and political agenda. Simply put, why would anyone champion their political and ideological opposition unless it were really their own.

"Efforts to generate scandal to discredit the administration,"....

they've generated enough on their own. how can anyone still give them any credit?

Well mr. stockman, what do you suppose will happen if mr. bush and the anti constitution republican party stays in power? If america does not wake up (including you) to the fact that king george bush, the republicans and the DEMOCRATS are destroying our freedoms at an excellerated rate, you will wake up one morning not too far in the future and realize that amerika is pronounced(CHINA). The republican agenda as you call it is full of corruption and anti freedom proposals. What do you think the patriot act is? It attacks americans constitutional rights. It has not caught one single terrorist, yet it goes after our personal freedoms in a way that would make adolph hitler proud to have george bush on his team. It makes no difference whether its republicans or democrats in office at this point, our freedoms will be destroyed by either parties. Butt, if george bush hangs himself in the process.....Right on dude, bring the popcorn.

Anyone who wants to see why the world trade center must have been a controlled demolition should read this website. It explains how the planes alone could not have brought those buildings down the way they were brought down. Keep an open mind and read the entire article. It may surprise you.

http://www.physics911.net/closerlook.htm