Why don't the feds just use eminent domain to snatch up all the houses without paying anything?

Nick -

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

This proposal by Congressmens Baker and Jefferson is rotten to the core. What is needed is the private sector to get into action.

If a homeowner wants to sell his or her property to a private charity, contractor or developer, he or she should be allowed to do so freely and with no duress from anyone. If he or she wants to rebuild his or her home or property, that should be allowed as well.

Homeowners, property owners, and private organizations can do more wonders than government can do. History has taught us that. In the rebuilding of New Orleans, history can repeat itself again provided that government gets out of the way.

The government built the federal highways and I am pretty satisfied with them (except in los angeles).

This is a crime. IMO, Libertarians are too shy, about sounding "crazy".

People, it's time to WAKE UP!!

Wake Up -

You're right. Look at how Howard Dean isn't so shy about being out of his mind.

Every time I read something like this I feel the bile come out of my intestines, into my stomach and up my throat. I want to vomit. My blood boils. And then usually some remark escapes my mouth about what a disgrace this once glorious nation has become.

Why don’t the feds use their brains just once and not rebuild anything in the damn wasteland that was New Orleans? It was a bad idea to build there then and it’s a bad idea now. Only a moron builds his house on land that sits below sea level. I feel no sympathy for the people that made the utterly stupid decision to build in NO. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it sure happened.

If I filled my garage with explosives and one day my house blew up due to a forest fire in the area, would anyone be proposing to buy my now demolished house and bail me out? Of course not! Because that would be stupid. These people knew the risks and they choose to build there anyway. And even if they didn’t know, tough stuff. That’s personal responsibility. Being responsible for the consequences of your decisions. It’s high time that we as a society stop shielding stupid people who do stupid things from life's hard knocks. You can bet these morons will read the GIS data about their property the next time they go to buy a place.

You know what, I am tired of hearing about the hurricane victims and their needs and desires and demands they have for the rest of us taxpayers. Its time that for once we as a country say "No". No more donations. No more bailouts. No more freebies. No more assistance. No more free rides.

To hell with these people. Hurricane victims or not, for just once, we need rule with our brains and not our emotions. They made their beds, its time to lay in them. It’s not my fault they made a wet bed!

Keith, you're taking it a little far there; lots of folks in New Orleans were born there and didn't have the resources to move out.

This proposed federally owned corporation will eventually crack just like the levees did.

Keith:

Whenever a libertarian makes a post like that, I feel I feel the bile come out of my intestines, into my stomach and up my throat. I want to vomit. My blood boils. And then usually some remark escapes my mouth about how politically stupid some libertarians are. :D

Seriously, one of the biggest reasons why the LP cant connect with voters is becuase we think hi minded appeals to "reason" and "logic" will sway voters. It has been proven over and over again that the exact opposite is true - voters connect with political parties based mostly on loose associations and value judgements, things which dont mesh with what we think.

The average person only thinks about politics for 5 minutes a week. That's based on a study done some years back. Those people arent going to listen to a screed about how living in NO was their fault, anymore than the millions living along the San Andreas fault are going to listen after the big one we KNOW is going to hit that area - someday.

And THEN we can blame all the people too poor to afford a anything but a trailer home when the next tornado rips them up and kills their children, And how about people that drive anything less than the biggest cars and trucks since they are safest in accidents? We should rip on them too, they knew this and yet they went a bought a small car!

Being compassionate on a personal level doesnt make one less a libertarian. Reserve your hate for something that deserves it - like the R's and D's who made the US what it is - a nearly bankrupt shell of itself, a hollow shell, and put that energy into productive work against them.

I seem to recall you've made other posts just like this one. Why dont you quit posting and volunteer for a LP campaign in your area instead?

Am I the only one that this hasn't taken by surprise? I figured as soon as they moved everyone out the federal government would move in. I hope they make into another lovely freindly federal city like D.C.

Given the cost of such an operation, which I am sure will exceed the estimates, eminent domain will probably be employed. Rather than sell that land to developers though, additional safeguards should be built to lessen the damage of future storms and those areas rezoned non-residential. The dispossessed will have to relocate, it is no longer a question of possible or not as those dwellings will no longer exist. Eminent domain historically has had to pay the landowners at fair market value, so they will at least have a stake to begin again. Catastrophes, natural or otherwise sometimes have to lead to hard choices, this is no exception.

Government isn't supposed to be charity -- Charity is for those PRIVATE, VOLUNTARY institutions that we CHOOSE to be involved with. The goverment has clearly overstepped it's bounds in acting as both a thief, stealing from everyone to redistribute the loot to those deemed "more in need" at any given time, and also the benevolent "slave master", bestowing the pilfered loot to those it considers more worthy of your property. This is the very essence of how the government has entrenched itsef into our lives through providing "essential services". You can not choose which services you wish -- your representative determines it for you, all the while using your money to establish and maintain these "essential services" with or without your consent. Heck, let's add phone service for all, cable tv for all, and transportation for all to the growing list of "essential services". For example, we don't need a homeland security department -- We've already had one since this nation was founded -- It's been called by many names throughout the years, but most recently it's called the department of defense! That's DEFENSE, not OFFENSE. Any and ALL benevolent service agencies that claim to be part of the government and wish to be funded at taxpayer's expense should have the ties that bind them to government cut and be privatized so that We the People can choose which we wish to support. Give me liberty or I'll be forced to win it back!

Here's a link for further reading...

http://www.patriotmoney.com/NotYoursToGive.txt

If you are going to be paying the landowners anything it has to be just for the value of the land/house today and we should leave this up to private people or businesses. To pay anything above this is amount for what the house might have been worth is pure fraud of the american taxpayer if the gov't is doing it. They should have received money to cover the majority of there loss from their homeowners and flood insurance. We shouldn't be paying twice for this. If we start a trend of the gov't paying people for what they should of had covered with insurance, then why should anyone take out insurance if the gov't will come in and pay for it anyway. Oh yeah that's right they will only do that if it is a big enough disaster so it will play well politically. A tornado taking out ones home is just a big of a disaster for one family as a family's home being taken out by flooding/hurricane but it is not a big of enough of a disaster for the politicians. Not enough votes. Not enough money that they can swindle out of the disaster. Not big enough to make a statement.

Or maybe they are wanting to pay for this because most of this disaster was caused by the gov't levees not holding up. Or maybe this is what the facists/socialist really want: a government owned city.

Can you tell me why a developer would want to buy ground that sits below sea level with no guarantees that this disaster won't happen again next year? They proably wouldn't unless the gov't is throwing money at them to do so or guaranteeing that the gov't (ie taxpayer) will help cover losses if another disaster occurs. Not only will we be paying the landowners for their homes, which they already should have been paid a fair amount through insurance, we will end up paying developers to build something on that ground as well too. And if another disaster happens again we will likely be covering some of the losses again. This makes absolutely no sense.

It turns out that Saddam was training terrorists after all.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp?pg=1

This federal corporation sounds like a way for a bunch of millionaire developers and speculators to get cheap land and big profits.

Nameless - What makes you think that neocon rag is credible in any way?

The fact that no private speculators have been buying up New Orleans land indicates to me that nobody thinks it'll have any value anytime soon. Thus, this will undoubtedly be a financial disaster.

Apparently I can't link to my blog without being denied as spam?

"Some members of Congress are concerned with the potential cost to taxpayers from Baker's plan."

That made me laugh. Loudly.

Why would the overwhelmingmajority of Congressmen care about any costs to taxpayers?

The answer: They don't.

Dave - You're right. It's hilarious.

Nameless :

The Weekly Standard is Bill Krystol's Neocon propaganda paper. I'm suprised it has not yet nominated doubleyah or DICK Cheney for sainthood yet. (St. Dick the Torturer?)

The Native Americans told the French not to build a city there. The French settlers brought civil engineers back from France who told them not to build it there. Using taxpayer's money to rebuild a coastal city below sea level will be a towering monument to this generation's stupidity.

If urban renewal is feasible, the private sector does it. If it is not feasible, the government does it.

Timothy West,

So what you want to see is an LP that is more moderate, less extreme political party, eh? Because some people cant bring themselves to vote for a party that supports your right to smoke pot, have sex out of wedlock, abort your children and in general do whatever the hell you want so long as you accept the consequences that come about as a result thereof and you don’t keep others from enjoying their rights as you exercise yours?

Then you want to be in the Democratic Party. Because that’s the only party that supports this kind of BS in any way at all.

The idea of government aid and handouts is not Libertarian no matter how you slice or dice it. I am not interested in compromising when it comes to the proper use of taxpayer money, the constitution or rights. This is no exception. True Libertarians do not compromise when it comes to these issues just to gather a few votes. That’s what Republocrats do and if you think that’s how things should be done then please, there is already a party for you: go join it instead of making this party like the others.

Someone else's need - real or perceived or otherwise - does not justify the theft of my assets under color of state to satisfy it no matter what. The government has a very limited, narrow scope of situations in which it is entitled to take money from me for the betterment of society. Bailing people out of situations created by their own stupidity isn’t one of them.

Being compassionate on a personal level is fine. If you want to give your money away to bail out a bunch of people, be my guest – it’s your money. But that’s not what we are talking about here. We are talking about being compassionate with taxpayer money and a lot of it. No one has a right to take taxpayer money and divert it to these programs that pervert the constitution and destroy our economy. That’s not only un-libertarian but its also its unconstitutional. The people behind this offense are guilty of treason, a crime punishable by death.

I support the LP in many ways, including monthly donations to the Indiana LP (which, unlike my home state party, is making headway and getting things done and thus gets my financial support) and other things.

Keith,

there are ways to be libertarian without alienating half the people who are not libertarian you run across. Just go re-read your post, and think about how a non-libertarian would look at it. They would think you're a heartless bastard.

and since I mentioned nothing about giving taxpayer money away or anything of the sort in that post, the rest of it I'll ignore.

Keith is right Tim, when you compromise on principle you commit moral suicide. Libertarians, unlike Republicans and Democrats are not constantly trying to redefine themselves to suck up to their financial benefactors or a fickle electorate that operates on emotion. No one needs to wonder where we stand from one day to the next. If you don't stand for something, then you stand for nothing. The primary reason the country is in the fix it is in is because of the concept of moral relativism. I will vote for a "heartless bastard" who tells me the truth every day before I vote for one of these "touchy feely" insincere liars we are subjected too every day.

The electorate needs to toughen up, and grow up. Libertarians should NEVER EVER compromise on principle.

This is, of course, another scheme to enrich Dubya's developer friends after bombs planted in the dike caused the flooding. Keith and Chuck
are right IF the LP wants to revert to what Mr. Michael Cloud dubbed "macho flash" libertarianism. Timothy West is right IF the LP wants to practice the art of political persuasion.
As Mr. Cloud has pointed out for years, you don't have to give up your principles, you just have to state them in an acceptable manner. Keith and Chuck also need to learn about the Ransberger pivot taught by the Advocates for Self Government.

Ha, I beleive the point that is being missed here is that goverment simply shouldnt be involved in buisness period.This is problem with politcal parties in general all of sudden we start to think of the big picture and start to beleive government can do good things for people.The fact is that if I told you as a borrower Im going to buy up a whole lot of property for 60 percent of the value even if 60 percent of the equity hasnt been paid you'd say that's a sorry buiness deal.Theres a consesous that government should be run like buisness when people say that I believe they think government should be making a profit not over burdening the tax payers on a buiness flop.This plan works out very well for investors in the future.They can buy the land on the cheap from their congressional buddies.This isnt government it's private industry using the goverment as their private musle men or mobsters and getting tax payers to pick up the tab.Whether New orleans springs back to what it was depends on regulare folks reinvesting maybe this time they will actually build the right levee instead of half assen it and pocketing the money but I doubt it.That is the goverment responsability

"This is, of course, another scheme to enrich Dubya's developer friends after bombs planted in the dike caused the flooding."

If you say so Creech, I do not believe anyone else made that assertion.

"As Mr. Cloud has pointed out for years, you don't have to give up your principles; you just have to state them in an acceptable manner."

Acceptable to whom? What is wrong with stating them in plain, easy to follow, no possibility of misunderstanding English? The best way to persuade politically or any other way is to show by example and be consistent.

So let me get this straight.

The Libertarian Party stands for blaming the people of not only New Orleans, but also anyone who lives near the Gulf Coast if any natural disaster happens to them becuase of that?

And we also stand for blaming anyone who cant do better than they are when something happens to them that's not a result of some kind of direct irresponsible action on their part, like a drug addict overdosing?

Exactly how many people do you think will vote for the LP with that "principle" publically espoused? Isn't the idea of having a political party to get people to vote for your party?

It's one thing to call for a minimum of government involvement and quite another to blame ordinary people for where they live. By those "standards", there is no place or occupation a human could do according to the LP, becuase nothing anyone does in life is without risk of some kind.

If it's more libertarian to blame trailer dwellers that cant afford anything better when a tornado touches down and kills everyone, and then chide the trailer dwellers for not being able to afford a stick built house, then we have a serious problem as a political party.

Seriously, I dont know whether to laugh at you or sob. The LP is never going to become politically viable unless it stops telling itself that voters are simply too stupid to see us for the superior beings that we are and start to attempt to make it's principles politically saleable.

Are you ever going to understand that a political party cant get anywhere by calling the same people it has to appeal to votes for clueless and stupid and deserving of death and injury?

You have zero clue about what the difference is between going against a principle and making a small step in the principled direction.

Guys like you are a larger obstacle to liberty than any R or D, becuase you might as well be working for the R's and D's. You help keep the LP weak better than anything they do. They dont profess to be lovers of liberty and sabotage what they claim to support, unlike you.

How would you "sell it" Tim, if you were running for office?

I'm at work and can't spend the whole day blogging.
I will give some examples later tonight after I get home.

TIM WEST I WOULD still like to know why you do not have a phone number for anyone to get a hold of on your REFORMTHELP.ORG

CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK.

Thank you.

I want to ADD to TIM COMMENT on the BLAME POST.

The Libertarian party makes itself look bad when it all it does is blame. WE LIBERTARIANS need to offer solutions, like if we were handling this such and such, the solution to the problem or a better way to deal with this from our prospective. NOT BLAME BLAME BLAME. We are suppose to be adults with solutions.

I want to tell you Tim I wrote the above post because I want to talk to you personally, and yes you should run for something.

I agree that we can't always be crying wolf. I blogged about it today, in fact, but the LP blog software thinks that blogspot is spam, so you'll have to go to libertarianyouth dot blogspot dot com; it's the top one there today.

Tim if we look at the whole Katrina mess the problem with it is a buncha BS promises that didnt get met.The government say's it can keep you safe.Buy you a new home.Put you right back where you were before such a catastrophy.Cure the clap, walk your dog and keep your aunt Betty from talkin your ear off.If you think about.Let's take Homeland security and FEMA.Both ask for money upfront for a quote unquote national disaster. so.. they got there money. what happened?

The same ole National gaurd showed up and late in this instance.The FED must have responsabilty to come to the aid of the citizens during a national disaster as far as food and such basic survival, but the idea that government can some how make it all better after such an event is ludicrous.This is the term of law that is relivent here "Act of God".Any response to an act of God or act of war would probable be after the fact.The people do not owe a duty after such an event to make them whole.Just because it happened to alot of people. If my house burned down it would be a catastropy for me, but the people dont owe me a new house.

So how this relates to the party which still makes laugh parties ruin everything.Is we are telling the truth. The truth is government only has limited duties enumerated in the constitution.So I think the LP's point is to get the truth out.If more people understood how snowed they are by the BS promises they would vote for better people.I should hope we don't just sit around thinking how much smarter we are because we beleive we understand the document.We live here too.Every iuncontituional policy effects us all and me personaly and Im sick.After first being dazzled by BS we are then underwhelmed by the lack of the response from government due to lack of resourses and what do they care they know It's all outside their responsabilty.So Instead of being Dazzled by BS I say tell the truth shoot a little lower.all this high minded talk aint government it's Nervana.Let's worry about what government can do in this world and save the promises for after.

The LP could be a political force is we lose the "end taxes and public schools" agenda.

The best way to sell liberty is RATIONAL proposals. Ending taxes and privatizing the sidewalks aren't exactly rational...in fact, it's the reason we're the laughingstock of other sites (i.e. politics1.com) and the populace in general.

End income taxes? Reasonable....end taxes? Kook.

Well, here I am.

The way one sells liberty is exactly the the way you would hope to sell any other product, becuase that's exactly what we have - a product called liberty. You cant sell it like something you buy, but many of the same things you would use to sell a product can be used to sell liberty.

However, liberty is a concept, and it means different things to different people. There's one major thing that is the same no matter what you sell, and you can ask any salesman what the big rules are of selling.

One of the biggest is: DON'T INSULT YOUR CUSTOMER! When you say that the people are stupid for living in New Orleans and deserve homelessness and death as a result, you are insulting them right off the bat before they hear anything else you have to say. What makes you think they will then listen to anything else to have to say to them? You just insulted them, said their choice of where to live sucked, called them stupid and lazy, and you expect them to then agree with you?

The Libertarian Principle at stake here is this:

The Government, any government, should not subsidize reckless behaivior by individuals, either before or after such a natural disaster.

What to do? There is activity by government that is bad, such as low cost loans to help people rebuild in a flood plain rather than flood mitigation programs for resettlement that are proven to save 3 dollars for every dollar they cost. Since private concerns dont underwrite flood insurance, there's not a private option. The best politically viable option would be to fully fund the flood mitigation programs and totally remove the flood insurance program.
This would remove the governments ability to replace people back into flood plains, and make rebuilding on higher ground the only option.

We should be for government activity that removes the ability of people to be irresponsible using tax dollars, and be for government activity that saves private enterprises and individuals money or labor, and there are some activitys by government that does both at the same time.

Libertarians should use 3 measurements when deciding whether or not to support an activity that government does:

1. Is the Activity constitutionally authorized on the state or Federal level? If we disagree with it, like on the income tax, we work to change the law while obeying it. We dont have to be for everything the Constitution says, but it's a very helpful signpost toward more freedom.

2. Does the Activity return more money to private individuals and businesses than it costs? The Interstate Highway System has paid untold trillions of dollars since 1958 to the private economy. Yet most libertarians think it's somehow un-libertarian - they dont look at the whole picture, only the cost, and not the reward.

3. Does the Activity benefit almost everyone on society in some manner? A taxpayer paid college scholarship based on race benefits only a class of people. yet everyone benefits by having public sewer systems. People forget how much disease there was in a typical city bfore the public sewers.

A Libertarian Party that seeks to stop government from making irresponsible behaivior (sic) easy or worse, even profitable. is something most people can vote for....that is, if you dont lead off your sales pitch by insulting the customer first.

Blame the Army Corps of Engineers for building half baked levys, blame the Federal Government for making it easy for people to move back into where they were in the flood plains, but stop blaming the voters themselves. That's a sure way to lose.

AGAIN SOOO TIM WEST WHERE is your phone number on the
or a way to contact you on the phone??????
reformthelp.org

Well said Timothy, very well put. I have only two point of disagreement with you one is on a personal level regarding obeying immoral laws. I exist within this society - reluctantly, but refuse to knowingly do evil or live as a subject. I am a big proponent of Civil Disobedience. That is a matter of conscience. That is a matter of choice.

I also agree with the concept that if Libertarians ever do come into "power", it would be disastrous to dismantle existing programs and change things overnight. We did not become a pseudo Socialist/Police State overnight. It would take at least a generation or two to set things right again. However I do disagree with diluting Libertarian principles to some sort of "compromise" to fit the "convenience" of the masses. Liberty is very easy to define in a Constitutional Republic, if it flows from the people without governmental interference of any kind it is liberty, if it flows from the government in any way it is a privilege bought at the price of liberty. The master should never have to ask the servant. There can be no compromise between liberty and government controls, the second you begin to accept privileges from an entity that is supposed to be servile to the people, you have just sold yourself into slavery again. A Republic is the hardest form of government to maintain because it requires almost universal participation and vigilance. The wolf will always be at the door, waiting to be invited in.

I'm not going to give out my home phone number here, sorry. You can send me a mail anytime you want at timothywest@adelphia.net which is the best way to contact me.

Oh Mr. West and friends, I agree. Libertarianism is very unattractive to many people. After all, the culture we live in today promotes an environment where we expect everyone to do everything for us, where we have no self responsibility, where we are bailed out of tough situations we create for ourselves and where the government damn well better make everything all better or we'll sue. Its an attractive lifestyle. All the frills with none of the bills. I confess, I have considered going for it myself, from time to time.

People are very used to being irresponsible as all hell -- most of these people (and most of the people in America) failed to take basic steps, some of which cost nothing, like having drinking water on hand in case the little pipe that the government ran to your house runs dry or is defiled, to prepare for a disaster -- and they now expect we the people to take care of them and make it all better. Libertarianism involves taking responsibility for the things that happen to you and taking reasonable steps to insulate yourself from same.

Its alot like trying to convince the people who have bought a cell phone plan that includes unlimited free incoming calls to switch to a plan where they pay $0.40 per minute for incoming calls. Its a tough sell. The only difference is we offer them alot in exchange for giving up the free incoming calls.

You guys want to continue to water the message of this party down so that the electorate can hear what they like and refrain from endorsing pure Libertarian concepts like the right to smoke pot that some consider radical, both of which are pointless exercises. If that’s all we are going to do, we are no different from the other parties and we should just disband or merge with one of the parties.

We have had about 200 years of weenies in office who are unwilling to step up to the plate on any issue and make the tough calls. We need someone who will tell the welfare whores that next month will be the last check and anyone that doesn’t like it can fly a kite, or, heaven forbid, get a job. We need someone who is willing to tell the censorists who always tell us to shut someone up for the children to shut up themselves and if they don’t like it, they can vote the candidate out next year. And in this case, we need someone who has the guts to draw the line and pull the plug on The Great Katrina Etc Giveaway.

Keith,

Sounds good, until you realize that not one libertarian will ever be in those positions becuase we have to get elected first.

So since we cant get elected in spite of ourselves, which big party politican do you think will do those things?

Good point Chuck.I agree.Tim your argument sounds great but issue 1.it's not civil disobediance if it's within the law not to pay it.It's no disobediance at all.On the contrary the Government must listen to people to provide public tranquilaty.

No I don't believe we'd want the FED building the sewers.Nor would we want the FED to build city streets as post roads.we like the Fed providing Highways.I think we all agree The national gaurd and other State services were the prodominant factor in Katrina.

The oversight flows from the people,and the governments obediance to it.If the people knew the secret plans when building the levee they could have said somthin.

Shall we tell people where to live?If they so choose they could live on the side of volcano,or build a better levee?State or FED.

We shouldnt pay for illigal things at the expence of living with nature.I believe whats in the document provides the correct balance.Publics interest should be tangable,finite and intrinsic.which is infra structure state,local and federal.Once we start going in to comunity and society.Words that the supreme court has defined abstract and an idea only the individual has rights.We start getting into the undefinable trying to manipulate private industry even for what seem's like good intensions leads to what we have now.

It's just as much the peoples duty to up hold their liberty as it is to enjoy it.That is a message not easily sold.

Oh By the way all the rights you guys advacate but dont excercise I do.Smoking pot,not paying taxes,not living near the big water dah dah daaah da da daaahhh.lol

LOL

oddly enough I have never smoked pot or done any other type of drug. Never needed to.

TIM WEST I will keep the email, but I wasn't necessarily refering to your home number, do you not have an office phone number or something, you should do if you have what looks like a business website. Sometimes talking is easier. Do you guys plan on getting an office phone? Example: here on this LP. they have an office phone, for executive director, etc. etc.

Drugs, eggs on drugs, (frying pan) any questions.
I HATE DRUGS!
Someone who I thought was a friend, put me in a dangerous situation. Friendship ended.
And I do not mean medical MJ

For the LP to win, the members should not insult the voters. By saying New Orleans deserves their fate shouts out potential voters. What is needed is a basic. The USA is a great country because of its people. The R and D two headed hydra monster have turned it into a mess. The R and D Two Headed Hydra Monster now wants to read Domestic and International Correspondence in the name of fighting terrorism. There should be a list of ALL of the Injustices committed by the R & D Two Headed Hydra Monster. With these truths, the R & D Two Headed Hydra Monster must be EXPOSED and thrown to the trash bin of history [by legal means]. So that the R & D Two Headed Hydra Monster Never returns, it would be great to repeat to future generations ALL OF THE INJUSTICES PERPETRATED. Next, there must be a withdrawal from UN, OAS, IMF, WB, and Kyoto to be replaced by a Truly Free Trade Concept [and the reasons such las less expense]. Of course, there should also be a replacement of government charity with private charity. People should be awarded on the basis of merit [at the present time, people who are rewarded are so because of mediocrity].

Maybe its time We have a new WHITE HOUSE

Drugs = BAD idea.

But still YOUR choice.

Fine, do your drugs, but you cannot qualify for a position in Capital hill, or other important positions. Qualification should include a sharp thinking mind where the drugs has not destroyed areas of thinking.

Nameless, I am about as anti-drug as you can get, I don’t even like to take aspirins for a headache, but I don't shove my opinions or attitudes down anyone else’s throat. I am not your Daddy. That is anti-liberty; everyone has the natural right to choose their own path to perdition.

I do find it funnier than Hell though, that in a country whose sitting government is so "anti-drug" every other TV Commercial is promoting - no, PUSHING some drug or another many of which are the very sorts of mood altering drugs so vigorously opposed by our sanctimonious Drug Czars. I guess it is all a matter of where the profit goes, right?

Well I do not think a person, let say for example that would be running this country should be in that position, because drugs do destroy the minds, thinking and etc. I do not want a person in leadership who mind is not thinking straight. It is bad enough who we have in charge right now.

Well, thank god Im not running for political office. Who the hell would want too.It is pretty well accepted that Bush used drugs but to him and others it's not a matter of the drug per se. It was the fact that it was made public.With the attitude we must protect the children.What would they think if they knew the president did drugs.Appearently the other attitude is well it's ok for me just not ok for you.Well we would have to accept the fact that cultures sence the beginning of time have used certain mood altering drugs.We have alcohol that's legal and myriad of other drugs being pushed on us all day as Chuck mentioned.I would say check out L.E.A.P Law enforcment against prohibition Web site they are libertarians but I dont even know if they are involved with this party.As matter of fact dose anyone know if we aggressively link orginazations that support the same interest as the party. To try to recruit like minded indivduals most web sites of this kind good amount of members.The story about the family getting deported to the U.S. is old to me.

The D.E.A went up to Canada to enforce our drug laws while Toronto is starting to repeal theirs.The U.S government seem to ignore all other sovereign governments borders while we insist that they respect ours.Appearently we dont respect other countries laws at all if we don't agree.

Finaly until we look at smokin a joint the same way as we would see somone havin a beer.No judgment at all except if one damaged property or injured a person should only be liable for the damage they've caused. We will still have these stupid laws you could say the same sanctimonious arguments about guns.I take the constituion as a whole. I dont pick and choose or pass judgment on things that dont effect me or others directly.Pass judgment if you like but atleast. Im no hypocrite.there could be murders if I didnt have daddies nerv medicine :)

It has been said, that they prefer people in office that has dirt, so they can have a hold over them. In other words I believe if someone has a clean background and would be a very good candidate that should be in office they couldn't get in because Capital hill is a dirty business. I bet if you did drug test on most of those greedy guys among other things they would be far from clean.

I am not saying the person has to be perfect, but by G-d there should be people in very important positions that have a stable and good clean backgrounds with a sharp mind. They may have a problem with drugs, but look who is running office, people who's mind that has been affected by the very same drugs. Your mind is really not the same after parts in your brain has been destroyed. So why are these people in office. HMMMM

Power is the most addictive drug of all. It rots the soul.

Moderates, Reformist, Revisionist, Soft-Spoken, Feeble Libertarians...Once again, I make the point that the Libertarian Party must, first and foremost, stand for Individual Liberty and the Personal and Social Responsibility that Individual Liberty requires. Besides, the time is approaching when all the rhetoric will eventually become meaningless in the face of expanding governmental authoritarianism in this country. Once again, I will state, in no uncertain terms: the time is coming when all of us will either be considered Enemies of the State, or Collaborators with the State.
If anyone continues to believe that we are not rapidly approaching that time...wake up and read the legislation being proposed and passed by Congress. Delve deeper into the extra-Constitutional authority that is being proposed, the drive to militarize many of the civil agencies of this government under the umbrella of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief. Listen closely to the wording that is being used, not only by the President and Vice-President, but his cabinet and advisors, by other politicians, by governors and state legislators. Power is being relinquished to Centralization across the nation on a scale that dwarfs the extension of Federal Authority exercised immediately following the War between the State Republics.
We may continue to play politics within the system, but the system is being drastically changed, even as we debate the proper role we may or may not think the LP should play within the political arena. The time may well come when we will have to choose where we will stand our ground, or relinquish our hold on what Liberty remains. As I have said before, on this blog, the LP is nothing if it is not a Revolutionary Party of Liberty and it's message is one of Radical Change within this country. A Radical Change to return to the Foundations of Constitutional Authority to the end that the Union of the State Republics is Restored. That message is and will always be viewed as extreme by those who maintain the Status Quo of Political Mendacity and have grown accustom to the massive mediocrity of this damnable Quasi-Corporate-Fascist system that we have allowed to usurp power over this once great nation.
I make no apologies what so ever for my stand, nor shall I ever shrink from defending the Liberty, Freedom and Rights of Freemen that are God-Given, and in no way are they granted by this or any other government.

CMMC, its nice to know a few of us still have a grasp on reality. I have already drawn the line for myself and I am sure others have as well. Those who havent are either simply stupid or just happy with the way things are going and will go whereever the police state wishes to take us.

Our government was founded upon the Justified Principles of Natural Freedom, and to that end, and only that end does the government exist with the consent of the People. Each elected official is, or should be, bound by Oath and Obligation to the People and the People alone. When parties, other than the People, have influence and power over those elected officials the result is naturally the corruption of governmental functions and it always ultimately lead to the denial of the Rights that the People alone should retain. In such cases, the government assigns itself Sovereignty over the People and functions without their consent or regard to their opinion.
When a government is polluted with the power of corruption and the greed that is associated with that corruption, the recourse of the People dwindles. As corruption is embedded within the Halls of Power, and the political forces govern according to their own fabricated rules and regulations, the People are increasingly excluded from the process and there is little chance, outside of revolution, for real change to occur within their government. The intent of a rogue centralized government is to make it extremely difficult for the People to work within the system of the government's political mazes, such a government accomplishes this through the implementation of massive amounts of vague laws, codes, rules, and regulations written in cryptic and extremely complicated language. A government which purposefully renders it's People Ignorant is fully aware that through such Planned Ignorance it renders it's People Submissive and Pliable.
In conjunction with the policies of Planned Ignorance, other manipulative forces, usually financial, are placed into service by such a government.
The government has, through the last 9 or 10 decades, brought this People to it's knees through the feudal system of taxation and fiat currency. The "Feudalization of America" has been so incremental that few among the population have noticed it, and those who have raised their voice in dissent have been, for the most part, ostracized. The removal of the system of Honest Weights and Measures has been one of the most devastating tools the government has used to bring this People under it's imposed "Serfdom". How shameful it is when you consider that today it takes $19,959.60 to have the same buying power as $1000.00 in the Pre-Income Tax/Pre-Federal Reserve world of 1913. The government, in collusion with International Banking Houses, has intentionally debased the buying power of the People through this insidious form of hidden taxation and through it the government has assaulted, in a very real sense, the People's ability to their Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Controlled manipulation of the currency has proved to be one of the most effective weapons in the government's arsenal used to nullify the Constitution and the Rights of Man.
Another weapon that has been very effective has been the introduction of the philosophy that Our Constitution is a "Living and Ever Changing Document" making it "Relative" to the times in which we live, instead of being an Absolute Document of Law. This philosophy has allowed the use of Arbitrary or Relative De Facto Law instead of Absolute De Jure Law and has, in effect, broken down the Constitutional Restraint within and upon the government itself. The violations of this government are numerous and are mounting as it continues down this path, neutering the Constitutional, abridging the Rights of the Citizens, and absorbing more and more power unto itself. The government has, in essence, become independent of the People in it's authority to govern, declaring it's own sovereignty, it's own rights and immunities.
In every case we find that men of character will act with Fidelity to the Oath Sworn to the People, while likewise, those lacking in moral character and understanding will, by nature, do just the opposite and in turn, hinder the very function and purpose of government. It is just as evident that within True Justice upon which this Nation was Founded, the Citizens will cohesively find the Purpose of their Nation and without it, the People become fractured, without hope, without standards or moral fortitude, in essence, forbidden to pursue Life, Liberty and Happiness. The equation having been altered by government, there is no longer equality between those who rule and the Citizens, the checks and balances no longer apply by reason of the government's use of their "legal loopholes", skirting around Constitutional Restrain and Restrictions.
Our system of government only remains effective when both the governors and the governed are equally bound by the same fundamental Laws of the Constitution. Obedience by the People is mandated only when the Scales of Justice are balanced, one imbalance becomes common-place, the People are no longer under contract or obligation to the government for such obedience. The government forfeits it's Right to govern when it subverts the very means by which it's authority is granted, namely the Consent of the People and the Contract which binds the both government and People together: The Constitution. When a government takes a turn toward despotism, it is not only the Right, but it is also the Duty of the People to rise against that government, in whatever form necessary, to ensure that the Law, which binds both government and People, is upheld.
Benevolent tyranny is no more acceptable as malevolent tyranny, they are equally vile and produce same result of subservience among the People. There are those within government who look upon the Liberty and Rights of the People with disdain, seeking to subvert the very meaning and function of such Liberties and Rights to the point that they are no longer effective, and pose little threat to their grab for power and rule. They view the People's Privileges are hinderances to their agendas of power and authority, road-blocks to their ideology of a controlled society, ordered by their view of the world. They consider the People little more than prey, waiting to be seized upon to satisfy the gratification of their own ambition and greed, nor will they cease the enlargement of their power, bit-by-bit, until they, if not obstructed by the People, they will, without doubt, turn Our Nation into a Land of Absolute Tyranny, and the People into their Servants. That process was begun decades ago, yet we continue to believe that no one in their right minds would do something like that to Our Country, yet they are allowed continue, basically unhindered, down the path that they have mapped out for this Nation. We have seen the claims of those in power, claims of power that bear no resemblance to Constitutional authority, yet we remain, for the most part, silent. In our Silence, we, in essence, give Our Consent to the actions of government, we defer judgement to those who are unfit for such judgments.
It is quite evident by the legislation that passes for law, that all reason and common sense is being left at on the steps of both Houses of Congress. One would suppose, that Our Congress would, as it ought to, legislate with reason and equity, yet we find every type of hodgepodge legislation being sponsored, and many times, passed into law. It is as though, they don't know what to do with themselves, so they pull some idiotic idea out of some idiotic head and propose that it become law.
When will the People stand and judge for themselves the faulted conduct of our elected officials? For it is certain that they will not judge themselves, nor restrain themselves to benefit the People or this Nation.

CMMC, I am in complete agreement with you and appreciate you well thought out observations. Monday was Martin Luther King, Jr. day. This was a man who understood what I am talking about, agree with him or not. He lived and died by his convictions and beliefs while we "courageous" Libertarians in 2006, wring our hands, soil our BVD’s wondering if we can sneak into elected office by masking our principles, changing our platform and diluting our ethics to persuade a passel of Socialists to alter their beliefs. I for one do not compromise my principles. I don't care if the masses EVER understand what we are about. The majority of them are probably "lost souls" to start with. From the sounds of some of us I sometimes think that Jefferson may have wasted this magnificent experiment on a pack of spineless cowards that are his progeny "I want to be free if it doesn’t cost me anything". If I sound angry, it is because I am.

If you wait for the public to wake up on their own, pick up the banner and join the cause - you will wait forever. The sheep will be shorn; it is their lot in life. "People who refuse to engage their intellect and morality are no better than cattle that have no intellect or morality. They are steaks on the table and beasts of burden by their OWN CHOICE and consent." That is the attitude of those who now by our own apathy, have turned the tables on us and become our masters.

To me the philosophy of Libertarianism and the desire to restore this Republic is not a Political Science research project. Jefferson, Adams and Franklin did not attempt to get a consensus from the Tories before July 4, 1776. George Washington was not elected to office before the British Government was asked to depart. As Libertarians we should be doing every thing in our power employing Civil Disobedience as King did, to take back this country. Totalitarianism of any sort FAILS when people refuse to cooperate with it.

As to the subject of liberty though, or more exactly - the loss of it, the blame needs to go where it belongs. No one can "take away our liberty" we can only give it away ourselves. We ALL have the power to refuse to be slaves or cattle or victims. We only have to choose. That we can do each and every day of our lives. We can do it today, we can do it now, or we can put it off forever or until some far off day when the public is "persuaded".

I live by my convictions, I run the risks you are so terrified of every day. No I don't think that I am superior to anyone in any way, but I was brought up to have a set of ethics and beliefs and to live by them. They are to me absolute and non-negotiable. I believe that we live in an age where we know the price of everything, and the value of nothing. If that makes me a radical, I accept the label proudly. I guess I am in fairly distinguished company. The fainthearted need not apply.