I just went to the website of this Prop. 107 and saw that one of the biggest scumbags living today is orchestrating it. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka Kansas. If John McCain is backing this proposition, than he has indeed gone over the deep end.

Would this be the same John McCain who just recorded ads urging passage of Prop 107, Arizona's bigot amendment?

The quotes made me LOL

Whoever the Republican candidate is, he'll be tripping all over himself to explain why he has a right to take guns away from the millions of secessionists activated by the 2008 Libertarian Party pro-secession candidate. (Though I myself always advocate nonviolent action of course.) The big Secession conference is this weekend and things are just getting going. Thank the goddess of maryjane we have organized people like Stephen Gordon and Shane Cory to lead the secessionist charge! Not to mention great groups like Judicial Watch. Just hope they don't call Stephen and Shane up to go to Iraq - or worse Iran!! Carol in dc, fighting 24/7 for liberty

Ms. Moore:

I've haven't the foggiest clue about what you wrote or might be suggesting. Would you mind clarifying a bit for us slower folks?

Just spreading the good news of the libertarian-oriented secession revolution that's coming. One that we know libertarians, the LP and the LP 2008 candidate will be in the forefront of, just as it is in the forefront of opposing war on Iraq and Iran. Did I forget the link to the secession conference? http://middleburyinstitute.org

Secession isn't a bad idea. It would be cool to have a country run on Libertarian pricipals instead of the crappy government that currently rules.

We tried it here in the South. Didn't work, but as my favorite columnist Charley Reese reminds us, that was only because we ran out of bullets before we ran out of Yankees. We killed a LOT more of them than they us. The revisionist history books won't tell you that.

If you look into the archives, you'll find that in the last half-century, the Canadian central government was poised and ready for their military to intercede with force, should the rigged vote in Quebec result in 50+% for secession. Expect that here, should such a majority ever be plausible.

I fail to see how such a simple and Non-Negitive concept as this award could not be used as a bench-marker of liberty.

Chip, the history books do tell us that. And the Rebs lost more men when they went on the offensive too. But if you didn't have enough bullets to stop the Yanks, you should have taken that into account before you picked the fight.

Actually, it was Mr. Lincoln that picked the fight, not the south. The south had every right to secede.

I would recommend reading "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo.

Secession? Really? Where? Since it isn't realistic in this patriotic, yet politically flawed country, why is it even a subject of debate. It won't happen. Can we focus on getting Libertarians elected here? That might actually happen if we pool some resources for an effective ad campaign before the 2008 election that tells people who we are and what we're about. Besides, if any newcomers dissatisfied with our present government come here to learn more and the first thing they read is about secession, they'll bolt.

From the original Libertarian platform of 1972.

"Secession
We shall support recognition of the right to secede. Political units or areas which do secede should be recognized by the United States as independent political entities where: (1) secession is supported by a majority within the political unit, (2) the majority does not attempt suppression of the dissenting minority, and (3) the government of the new entity is at least as compatible with human freedom as that from which it seceded."

The LP had a secession plank until the Portland disaster of 2006. Secession is an integral part of Libertarian theory and philosophy. While I would not use secession as a starting point with newbies, it always has been and always will be on the table for discussion.

With any luck, the secession plank and all the other planks will be back in 2008.

Nice plank. I had forgotten how it had endorsed secession but would require recognition only for secession that had no net loss to individual liberties. Secession, by itself, is neither good or bad. One must add values - for what purposes was the secession undertaken? That's why Southern secession - to oppose potential measures by the United States to avoid the spread of slavery into new territories - was an evil to be opposed by those who cared to.

Creech:

I strongly recommend that you obtain and read "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo. You will find it extremely thought provoking. There was a lot more going on regarding southern secession than what meets the eye. Since this is not the place for this discussion I won't go any further on the subject, other than to highly recommend that book to you and anybody else.

I agree that secession is a right any political entity should have, I'm just saying it's not realistic any time soon. We can't seceed with the political strength we have right now, and if we gain the political strength we want, secession wouldn't be necessary because we would be able to make the changes we feel are required to make America free. Then if anyone wants to seceed to become a theocracy because America has become too free for them, are you saying we wouldn't let them because they would be less free than the nation we have created? How is that fair? It's their choice, right? This whole discussion is silly. Vote Libertarian, be free. 'Nuff said.

The right to secession should definitely be in the Libertarian Party platform. Mark B is right that it is an integral part of libertarian theory and philosophy (and thanks Mark for posting the original 1972 platform language!)

Ultimately what we want to do is secede as individuals, because as libertarians we believe in *individual* sovereignty, not *national* sovereignty. By definition there can be only one sovereign per jurisdiction, so either the individual is sovereign, or the government is -- they cannot both be sovereign simultaneously.

As libertarians, we want each person to be his or her own jurisdiction -- in other words, to be in charge of making his or her own choices in life, so long as they do not hurt (violate the jurisdictions of) others.

I also hope to see some news from this secession conference that Carol Moore posted about in the next issue of LP News. It would be an improvement if that publication was a bit more focused on the libertarian movement as a whole, seeking solidarity with other libertarians outside the party, and not just exclusively focused on the activities of large-L libertarians.

Such an approach, if done in conjunction with reaching out to other libertarian groups and letting them know we're thinking of them as on our team, would probably pay off for the LP, as they in turn increased their cooperation with and mentions of the party.

Libertarian movement solidarity for a free world!

I agree with the idea of personal sovereignty but most people don't think that way. You mention secession and they think a place (state or city) and everything and everyone in it will be leaving the United States of America. Sounds like nation building to me. WE know what you're talking about but think of Average Joe on the street. He isn't even going to listen to you if you start the conversation that way, but you mention freedom he'll have a basic foundation for the discussion. Isn't it more productive, not to mention realistic, to talk about making this country free as opposed to oppressed? And what if the people in the free state would rather be Americans? Now their choice is made for them by someone else.

By the way, what state, or county, or city is to seceed? If South Carolina seceeds and becomes Libertarian, I would have to move there to be free? That's certainly not MY goal? I live in NY and want NY to be as free as South Carolina, or New Hampshire, or wherever else I should CHOOSE to live. If we all had personal sovereignty it wouldn't be an issue, but that's not going to happen unless we do a very un-libertarian thing - unite. Unite against oppression from our government which is based on libertarian principles yet has strayed from those principles. Get the conversation rolling and tell people about freedom, limited government, low taxes. They'll come around, maybe slowly or maybe quickly with more elections like we've had in the last dozen years of discontent. We just have to remind people that instead of swapping evils every few years we can be free all the time.